Posts by Nathan Natas

73

Why won't JWs have "civilized" debates with home owners?

by ilikecheese in

it seems kind of crazy to go to someone's house touting your religion as truth and then not even defend your own beliefs.

why do jws stop the chat if someone just tries to calmly reason/debate with them?

i'm not talking about crazy preachers who start slamming bibles and yelling about how they need jesus or something.

Nathan Natas

Here's an abbreviated answer to your opening question from my historical perspective (your mileage may vary):

Long ago, back when Chuck Russell was still around and doing his jellyfish thing with all the babes, Chuckie was cheesed over the fact that he wasn't triumphing over his opponents in his once-famous "public Debates," so Chuck issued a general order to all his "Pilgrims" (salesmen) that it was a waste of time to debate religious foes.

One of Chuckie's boys, Joey "Da Judge" Rutherford, gets this smart idea in April 1915 and decides that he will ignore Chuck's standing order and go out to California to debate Baptist preacher J. H. Troy over four nights before an audience of 12,000. Rutherford got his ass kicked and when he returned to Brooklyn Bethel he found Chuck rather displeased with the mega-flop and Rutherford began the oblivion spiral. Then on Halloween Russell recieved his reward and Joey's friends in Bethel called him back to Bethel to stage his coup.

"Say 'Hello' to my little fr'ends" he is reported to have said as he pointed to his trousers.

11

Interesting Conversation that we ARE NOT Bible Students

by RubaDub in

no need for all the details, but we were with a few from the kh after the meeting for some food and the topic of how smart we are compared to other religions in the world when it comes to knowing the bible.. my radar immediately went off as that is one of my pet peeves.

(most laughed since i doubt any do the family study night, but that's beside the point).

i asked one of the brothers to multiply that by 50 weeks (answer is 225 hours).

Nathan Natas

Rub-a-Dub observed,

" A typical college course is around 40 hours. So 240 divided by 40 equals 6. Basically, we are in meetings for the equivalent of 6 college courses per year, each year, every year. To graduate with a four-year degree from a typical college you need a total of about 40. Divide 40 by the 6 courses per year and you would graduate from college in 6 1/2 years with a degree."

Except that they are essentially the SAME classes every year at the KH! Colleges have a PROGRESSIVE study plan that the WTB&TS does not. And who needs Song of Solomon 204 anyway?

29

Is this true? Don't Call 911 If The Guy In The Next Seat Falls Ill at The DC?

by Room 215 in

jw
friends

this from a recent thread: .

"recent ridiculous instructions about not calling 9-1-1 yourself at district conventions if someone is having a heart attack but, instead, telling an attendant, who is supposed to let the first aid department know so they can come and assess the person and then call the paramedics.".

i hadn't heard this before.... sadly, it seems in perfectly in character for them.

Nathan Natas

Can you imagine the disruption at Jehovah's dinner-table lunch-counter that would be caused by multiple calls to emergency services from an assembly site?

It would be a very, very WRONG thing to do from a pay telephone that could not be traced back to you (especially if you uesd a napkin to protect YOURSELF from the microscopic vermin that can be found on pay phones). We would never want to do such a bad bad thing to Jehovah's Soap-Box Derby-like organization.

Don't even think about it!

That means YOU, Minimus!

87

Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders"

by applehippie in

really, the bible was written by nothin' but goat herders?

i don't post much but this does irk me.

yes a few may have been shepherds or fisherman, but a fair amount were far more educated and were professionals in their fields of occupation.

Nathan Natas

AppleHippie said, " I was specifically adressing the utter lack of credit and respect given to people in those ancient days; they were a lot more savvy than any of you want to think."

This qualifies as an EXTRAORDINARY claim. What extraordinary PROOF can you provide to support your claim?

My bet is that you can offer NO proof, because these are just reflections of your imagination and the way you WISH it could be.

You are asleep at the wheel of life and want your slumber to be "respected." Disaster looms ahead...

52

The time is near for my families crucification

by Gojira_101 in

jw
friends

good morning jwn-land.. since my parents and my husband and i have learned ttatt we have been keeping quiet, mostly.

we have held off on revealing our true names, my dad has held off joining jwn and telling his story because we have been waiting for one special event.

my dad talking to his mother about ttatt.

Nathan Natas

Hi Gojira!

Your grandmother has been infected with the "I-can-buy-Salvation-by-working-for-the Watchtower" meme.

To win her attention you will need to convince her that YOU are more powerful than The WATCHTOWER (and you are) or convince her that she has been the victim of HE BIG LIE - a LIE that is so collossal that many cannot see it, because it bends light around it.

As you already realize, it is unlikely that grandma will admit to being a victim of the WT scam; look at all the hopes and dreams she has invested in them. She will lose these dreams if she wakes up.

Still, hope srings eternal in the human heart, and you can't be faulted for hoping she will wake up.

I'm looking forward to the time when your Dad feels free to post here.

So many have had their self-esteem damaged by the lie of the "unforgivable sin" and the way the WT uses that to keep people in a constant state of FUD - Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt. Your Dad is giving your Uncle a great healing.

87

Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders"

by applehippie in

really, the bible was written by nothin' but goat herders?

i don't post much but this does irk me.

yes a few may have been shepherds or fisherman, but a fair amount were far more educated and were professionals in their fields of occupation.

Nathan Natas

You're right, AppleHippie, they were NOT all goatherds, and I'll bet that in Sheol a cheer went up when you came to the defense of these ancient worthies.

They certainly were not all goatheards - some of them were sheep-herders, some of them may have been fishermen, some of them were murderers using "G*d told me to" as their excuse, some of them were rapists, many of them were imaginary, and of those who were not, all were liars and parasites. And ragheads.

Thanks for requesting clarification.

207

Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

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Nathan Natas

Seraphim23:

I am terribly, TERRIBLY ofended that you would right what you have here. I feel as though my rocks have been kicked.

There is a saying you may have heard: "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof."

For example, if I claim that I have the ability to levitate, are you just going to believe me, or are you going to ask for proof; ask me to show you that I can do what I claim to do?

What if I told you I practice "soul-travel" and that I could observe you at great distances without leaving my house or using spy equipment. Are you just going to believe me? I had an experience like this with a person who was a follower of Eckankar. I asked the believer if they were willing to demonstrate their ability for me. They declined. Maybe I should have believed anyway, huh?

You ask us, "What about a realising that any world view can be wrong?"

Do you mean that ALL world views are wrong, or do you mean that ANY world view EXCEPT YOURS can be wrong?

I believe there is an objective reality that is NOT wrong, regardless of whether it is accepted or not.

You tell us, "...I think it is true, that spiritual people preach best when no words are used..." Yes, I would agree, and I believe this is true for "spiritual people" because much of what they believe is irrational. You would like to silence your opponents because your irrationality can not bear scrutiny.

If you are day-dreaming and thoughtlessly walk out into traffic, should I grab you by the arm and rudely save you, or should I worry that you might take offense that I touched you before we were properly introduced? What if you were leading others who trustingly followed you out into traffic? Should I let them perish because they made the mistake of following you?

I think you plead for special treatment because your beliefs are weak and undefendable. I will grant you no special treatment when we clash in the arena of ideas. That's life, kiddo! If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

14

Another Jehovah-Witness-supportive documentary

by A.M. Number 1 in

jw
friends

http://www.dailynews.com/ci_21983668.

just its existence makes me mad though, so i don't know if i could contain my rage.

it might just be too much for me to handle.

Nathan Natas

"I think, this will be my last posting on this website."

Where's yor spine, your coat of spiritual armor? Go preach to your choir.

It is possible that you are not a male resident in the USA who would have been subjected to the Draft during the days it was active.

If you were it is unlikely that you would so easily dismiss what 18 year old Americans gave up. You are talking through your Sunday bonnet.

9

'No he didn't' .....8 years later..... 'OK he did it' Michael Jackson defender files sex abuse claim

by Sol Reform in

michael jackson defender files sex abuse claim.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/showbiz/michael-jackson-sex-claim/index.html.

by alan duke, cnnupdated 10:00 pm edt, wed may 8, 2013 the death in 2009 of superstar michael jackson, who died of cardiac arrest at the age of 50, sent shockwaves around the world.

Nathan Natas

Ah, the seductive whiff of MONEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cpbbuaIA3Ds

20

broken hearted

by recovering in

9:05am may 12i just got this facebook message from my niece.

i had always thought she was smarter than this.

she is a college educated woman in her 50's .

Nathan Natas

This is indeed unfortunate.

What is the background story on this? Was she an un-baptised-dub-in-training since childhood?

Does she have a tenuous grasp on reality? Has she suddenly decided that only the Brooklyn Publshing Outfit can give her eternal life?

Tsk, tsk, tsk.